The new AI capability framework, published on 21 February, addresses the need for our health and care workforce to continually adapt their skills and capabilities, ensuring they can work in a digitally and data enhanced environment to meet the needs of the society it serves.

Read the AI capability framework.

Clinical teams of the near future will be required to use AI and digital health technologies effectively and equitably to deliver the healthcare of tomorrow. In response to this need, HEE commissioned the University of Manchester to undertake a learning needs assessment and to create a capability framework to aid the learning and development of the healthcare workforce of England.

The capability framework aims to help healthcare workers identify gaps in their current knowledge and areas for preparatory activities to support the digital transformation of the workforce.

You can watch a recording of the webinar launching the AI capability framework below.

Watch webinar 5

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12:45 twelve 45. And thank you all for coming those who have logged on,

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and we hope you're able to stay with us for the whole time.

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So can we ask that

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All people who are joining the webinar have their cameras turned

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off and the microphones on mute.

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The session will be recorded.

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And if you'd like to ask questions, but this is supposed to be a kind of a chat.

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And therefore it's really helpful if there are questions if you can put them in the chat window,

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which you can see if you click on this series of icons at the top of the screen.

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The very first icon in the middle at the middle of the teams screen says chat.

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If you click that, a window will open. I'll even do it now.

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Your column appears in in in black on the right hand side of the screen

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and then you can write your question there and then post it using the little

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paper airplane icon in the bottom right hand corner of the screen.

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And then we'll know what question you've asked and we can post that

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to the panel that we've got here. So thank you all for coming.

1:48

Umm. Can I start by asking

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All our panel members to just briefly introduce yourself and

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where you work? What your job title is? And I'll I will demonstrate by saying,

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uh, my name is Adrian Brooke I’m Medical Director at Health Education England

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and my background clinically was in Paediatrics and I'm an interested.

2:26

Dinosaur from the pre digital age in this area so can I go

2:33

over to you Sonia next please? Hello everyone, lovely to be here. My name is Sonia Kumar,

2:38

I'm a GP by background and Professor of Medical Education and I'm an associate Dean at the University of Leeds.

2:47

Thanks, Sonia. And can we then move on to Alan next, please?

2:53

Hi everyone, I'm Doctor Alan Davies. I'm a senior lecturer at the University of Manchester and my backgrounds in

3:00

nursing and computer science. Excellent and last but by no means least,

3:06

Hatim. Thanks, Adrian. So my name is Hatim Abdulhussein. I'm a GP in northwest London.

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I'm also Health Education England’s National Clinical Lead for AI and digital workforce.

3:16

thank you. So, and what we're going to do is just very briefly, uh,

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kind of to introduce this session really to set the scene.

3:27

And. What I really just want to do here is in fact just remind everyone

3:35

that the AI digital healthcare technologies capability Framework

3:43

was published this morning at 10:00 AM and is available on the

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NHS Digital Academy website. So that that report and the

3:56

framework build on the findings and recommendations made in the Topol

4:01

Review which came out in 2019 and was entitled preparing the healthcare

4:06

Workforce to deliver the digital future. And that outlines a set of

4:12

recommendations preparing the NHS workforce to become world leaders and utilizing digital technologies to the

4:20

benefit of our patients of course. Now we know clinical teams in the near future will be required to use AI,

4:26

artificial intelligence and other digital health technologies effectively and equitably.

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Really, for the benefit of all And that's starting now actually.

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So this is not, this is not something for the very distant future, this is occurring as we speak.

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But in response to this need Health Education England, HEE’s how it's foreshortened.

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It's an arms length body, commissioned University of Manchester to undertake

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a learning needs assessment and create a capability framework and that's

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to aid learning and development of our healthcare workforce. Now the framework aims to help

5:08

healthcare workers identify gaps in their current knowledge and areas for preparatory activities

5:14

to support digital transformation of the workforce as well as their

5:19

own individual learning. And this, this builds these capabilities that we've just published,

5:25

build on the foundational digital literacy capabilities first

5:30

introduced in a health and care digital capabilities framework.

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So the AI digital healthcare framework extends this with capabilities around the use of health data and the

5:43

technologies that make use of this data. For example, applications on your mobile phone or

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computer and wearable technologies, software and programs, etc.

5:57

And this is further extended with more advanced capabilities like

6:02

artificial intelligence and of course the advent of robotics.

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And capabilities of course range across the whole spectrum from initial

6:13

awareness through implementing these technologies in a healthcare environment and supporting digital

6:21

transformation projects. So I'm going to shut up now. I think that's probably welcome for everyone.

6:28

And perhaps I'll turn to Hatim and Alan to present the framework.

6:33

Thank you. Thanks, Adrian. And so I'm just

6:39

bringing up the slides and hopefully. We can all see them. Give me a second.

6:45

Yeah, OK, everyone can see the slides, you can just give me a yeah, perfect. Alright. So I mean I've between Alan and myself,

6:52

we're just gonna go through the the methodology behind the framework and a brief overview of what the framework includes.

6:58

But when I was reflecting on what I'm gonna say today, I was just looking back when I

7:03

started my GP training as a registrar and started my first placement

7:08

as a GP in a practice in Hays. I was doing majority face to face

7:14

consultations and practicing in a way that seemed very familiar to me and I think going back I'll probably only

7:19

about 2 or 3% of my consultations were even telephone based and the majority were with the patient in front of me.

7:25

I then went into accident and emergency As a trainee and we hit the first wave of the pandemic and and being an

7:31

accident emergency I noticed certain things. So I noticed how suddenly our nursing staff announcing them and see what

7:37

collecting observations on on a device and while inputting them onto a system. I have seen the people are

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struggling to see the slides. Um, so we've we've got messages in the chat that says they can't see the slides.

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Let me see if I can share those accounts with you. Give me a second. So maybe if you go into presenter and all

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then we all disappear that might be easier.

8:02

Can someone message to say Whether the slides are there? Yeah, we've got some, yes. OK. Thank you for your help.

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So being in A&E I noticed that things were changing. So, so nursing staff were recording observations on, on, on,

8:15

on a system and we were having to access that system to to be able to look at observations. We had new healthcare records that we

8:22

were using in that emergency department. And I remember going in one day in pediatric and being told we've

8:29

got this new system in place and not really being shown how to use it and not really being

8:35

how kind of having had the time to really familiarize myself. with the system. I then went into general practice and

8:41

notice the whole world had changed. I you know, when I logged into my my my system, I suddenly had widgets on the screen

8:47

that allowed me to text and and and receive messages from patients. And something I was looking at appointments, I had something called Econsultation

8:54

where people had given me information beforehand and then I had to act upon and thinking about what I was gonna do going forward.

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And all of a sudden I was doing about 50 to 60% on my consultations, either via the telephone or in some

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cases even by video consultation. And I reflected on how when we got to this stage,

9:13

but two whether I thought that I had the best skills in place to to be able to to work in this new way and.

9:19

And I was also at a point where I was preparing for my general practice exams, and a key part of my exams was to to

9:25

record myself consulting with patients. And a lot of these consultations were over telephone and video. Now that became an opportunity for me.

9:32

It allowed me to really analyze the way I consult with patients and to reflect with my educational

9:37

supervisor around how best to do that and what kind of mitigation I needed to take when I'm consulting with patient over a video call

9:43

rather than over a phone or versus a face to face consultation. And so when I came into my role at Health Education England,

9:49

it was very important for me to think. About how we do our best to to help people understand what they need to know to be able to work with

9:55

the types of technologies that we interact with patients with. And so that's really the, the, the key context behind why this is important.

10:02

It will enable people working in, in, in health and care to be able to understand the types of skills they need to have when interacting with people,

10:09

interacting with patients and and using technology passing over to Alan and I'll move the slides along.

10:17

Thanks, Hatim. So I'm just gonna talk very briefly about this sort of methods we use to to create the framework.

10:23

So we used an iterative mixed methods approach to create it that involved co-design as well.

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So this involved carrying out systematic literature review to look at the academic side of things and

10:34

where the different gaps were and also a series of workshops which we did online and then that was followed

10:40

up by a digital survey as well. Next slide please.

10:46

So the the systematic literature review is really used to to generate some initial concepts and this was carried

10:51

out by Health Education England's knowledge and management team. And we also include, as well as the academic literature

10:57

we looked at the grey literature, so we looked at existing frameworks, international frameworks and other

11:02

relevant policies and documents. And we use this to generate a set of a set of really groupings of

11:09

topics and themes and concepts. So looking at the different things that were coming up constantly in the literature,

11:15

that would seem to be important and we group these together roughly into what we call a concept map

11:20

and that acted as the basis for the workshops to give people a starting point, so they could look at the kinds of

11:27

technologies and things that we were talking about under those different main areas and spark the debate really.

11:34

So if you move to the next slide. So we carried out the workshops online, it was during the pandemic and we used,

11:40

we used a thing called Miro which is a an interactive board that allows multiple users to work at the same

11:46

on the same page basically. And we also put people into breakout rooms and the series of workshops

11:51

targeted different stakeholder groups. So the first one was really around so people like the Topol fellows there.

11:58

We have NHS, clinical entrepreneurs. We had in the second group we had

12:03

industry representatives so this was Babylon Health Google. Health, Barclays and Bupa and the final workshop

12:09

was focused around subject matter experts. So we used each of these three workshops to use the topics to spark

12:16

discussion and consider what the different capabilities might involve and then we're able to rank these in

12:22

order of importance and complexity. Next slide please. We use something called the nominal

12:27

group technique for the workshops and this is quite a useful technique when you've got people that aren't familiar with each other or you

12:33

might have power dynamic imbalances. So essentially you've got this nominal phase where you privately consider

12:39

the information and we did this offline prior to the workshops and then we have an item generation phase.

12:44

This is all around ideation. So people come up with ideas without being interrupted by others and

12:49

in this we captured that on post, it notes on the Miro board and then you go back around to the clarification

12:54

and discussion where you can kind of. Probe into the different ideas and ask people to explain them.

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And then finally there's a voting stage where you're able to order the priority of the different items.

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So we used this to generate a draft version of the framework, next slide, please. And then we sent that draft

13:11

framework out via survey for wider participation so we could get more people to give us feedback.

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We took that feedback on board and then constructed the final version of the framework that you can see in

13:22

the report. Next slide, please. So the framework is, as mentioned before, it's built on top of the original

13:29

digital literacy framework and that forms the foundation. And then on top of that, we've got a lot of skills around data.

13:35

So obviously for a lot of these advanced technologies, wearables, AI, machine learning, they're all built on an

13:40

understanding and use of data. And then on top of that, we've then got those technologies. And then on the higher end,

13:45

we've got things like artificial intelligence and AI. So it's built up in that

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in that way basically. And it sort of straddles the space between the original digital literacy framework,

13:57

which is very much around basic digital competencies, you know, so can you switch your machine on, send emails and do all these

14:04

fundamental digital things? And then at the other end, we've got special frameworks for special groups like Informaticians.

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And this framework very much straddles that space in between the expert frameworks and the very

14:15

fundamental digital literacies. Next slide, please. So the other problem we had here is how do you make a framework

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where you've got so many different types and roles in the NHS, so many different types of workers in the NHS workforce.

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So it would be quite a challenge to map these capabilities onto all those different working groups.

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And the other problem is some of these working groups will have different roles. So you might be a clinical nurse, but you might also be involved in

14:39

informatics projects, for example. So you might wear multiple hats. So to get around this, we use archetypes instead.

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So essentially we map. All the capabilities onto archetypes and then people can self identify

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which archetype or archetypes they belong to or their their managers can do this as well.

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And the archetypes include things like shapers. So this can be people in leadership positions or arms length, arm length bodies.

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We've got drivers. So this can be your CIO's and CCIO's creators. So these are people that are actually

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creating some of this stuff, engineers, data scientists and then we've got embedders. So these are people who actually embedding

15:14

some of these things into the various. System, so IT teams and so forth and then we've got the users as well.

15:21

So people actually use the technologies and it is possible that you can come under one or more of these different

15:28

archetypes at different points. Next slide, please. We also use something called

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Bloom's digital taxonomy. So for any educators out there, you're probably quite familiar with blooms. It's quite a popular framework that's

15:39

often used in in education and this is a digital version of that framework. And we mapped all of the

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different capability statements onto Bloom's taxonomy as well. And it really includes moving from

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lower order thinking skills through to higher order thinking skills. So at the lower end you've got

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things like remembering things and and basic understanding moving through to application, analyzing, evaluating.

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And then creating so we use Bloom's taxonomy across the framework and and

16:08

through the different sections as well. Next slide, please. So the framework itself is split

16:14

into a number of key domains, and these domains include things like digital implementation,

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digital health for patients and the public, ethical, legal and regulatory considerations, human factors, health data management,

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and artificial intelligence. Next slide, please. And a number of these domains

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also have subdomains. So you can see there, for example, that they break down further. So AI includes things like robotics.

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We've got things like management and leadership under human factors and ethics and regulations under

16:43

under the legal issues and so forth. And inside each of these, we've got a number of individual

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capability statements. Next slide, please. So on on each of these

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domains and subdomains, we've got a number of statements split into 4 levels. They're split into 4 levels to

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make this compatible with the original digital literacy framework. So it's a familiar structure and the levels really just infer

17:06

increasing complexity or difficulty. So level one is going to be easier than level 4. And then within each of these levels,

17:12

you've got the actual capability statements themselves, and then these are mapped onto those different archetypes that

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you can see at the bottom there. So that's it. That's a quick whistle stop tour through kind of how we designed

17:23

the framework and kind of what the framework consists of and I'll pass back to Hatim. Thanks, Aaron.

17:28

And a key message here is, so it's great. We've got a framework, we've got an idea at a very early stage

17:34

of what these capabilities might be. But how do we make sure that, one is sustainable and two,

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we get the impact we need to get in terms of me being in my clinic room as a GP to practice skills

17:45

that I would need to be able to work the touch technologies that I'm interacting with? And so the first thing is

17:51

to say that technology is, is fast adapting and in our framework we've done our best to make sure that we're technology agnostic.

17:56

But we need to make sure that we continue to keep live to to advancements and developments in this area. And so we're going to be doing

18:02

some work to make sure we have a mechanism in place to continue to review and refresh the capabilities with the in the framework as well

18:09

as building new areas as things emerge in policy and in healthcare.

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The second part is we want to empower individual learners to be able to use this framework. So it's about embedding it into

18:21

existing health education England learning platforms or tools and such as the learning hub.

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So that individuals can really measure their own learning, their own aspirations for where they want to get to and and and and and that will then drive them

18:32

forward in terms of what kind of skills they develop based on that material out there. And then the final part is to be able

18:39

to make sure we're working with their educational bodies like people like Sonia who's working with in a higher

18:44

education institution or our royal colleges or professional regulators to be able to support the educational

18:51

reform that we need as a result of the learning that we have developed over the past year and a half in developing this

18:56

Framework and and so that we know that when I am entering my GP training,

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I had it quite clearly within my remit to be able to develop these skills naturally within the competency of the capabilities that I need

19:07

to build as part of becoming a GP. I hope that's been a helpful overview of the framework, but I'll pass it back now over

19:15

to Adrian for the discussion. Thanks Hatim, and thanks Alan for for a kind of

19:22

lightening tour through the, uh, the rationale, background development and deployment

19:28

of of the framework. So thank you very much. What we'd like to move on now to is

19:36

discussion on how we can implement that framework in undergraduate

19:42

and postgraduate training. So and I'm going to turn to.

19:49

To Hatim and Alan and Sonia, I mean we have got this. You know, this funny triad between,

19:55

if you like the individual, the framework, the places individuals are in,

20:01

for example, you know, postgraduate or undergraduate courses and

20:07

we've got the changing landscape as well. So we've got lots of moving targets

20:12

and of course we've got a regulatory framework as well to navigate as well because some Healthcare

20:18

is a highly regulated field for obvious and very good reasons, which may not always be.

20:24

Quite as adaptive I well, I would imagine, and I don't know if anyone. Would like to kind of comment on some of

20:30

the difficulties that that that throws up, you know maybe around assessments or stuff.

20:39

I can go first and then. So whenever or when we kicked off this piece of work,

20:44

I think we made it very clear at the start that we needed to be engaging with, with educational bodies right from the start to be able to help them understand,

20:50

one, why we're doing this and and two, how they might use the product at the end. And then some early examples of

20:55

where that's been in effect is, for example the British Institute of Radiology. So we did a piece of work in January

21:01

of last year that looked at the AI and data-driven technologies in the NHS and what workforce groups they affect.

21:08

At the top of that tree we saw radiology radiologists. And and near the top healthcare

21:13

scientists as well and so. And further conversations off the back of that with the British Institute of Radiology,

21:19

we were able to say, well look, this is going to be really important for your membership. It's going to be really important for those that are working in the professional

21:25

groups that that you're responsible for. What can we do to to enable that learning that these groups need to need to have to be able to

21:32

work with these technologies. And we've got a webinar series and some learning materials that are being developed by the British Institute of

21:38

Radiology and are launching it there, uh, AI and your Congress as well in a few months time and so.

21:45

The key is is is to find the the bodies that are, you know really valued at the

21:50

importance of this and are looking to to work with us to just to build some of that proof of value for

21:56

for the learning in this space. Thank you. So so it sounds like some colleges

22:04

are kind of. Acknowledging this and you know, sometimes we say in education that we the assessment drives learning

22:10

and therefore if it if you're going to be asked about it in the exam, that's quite a powerful driver.

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Clearly a lot of the workforce is not in training or education, but is post training as it were

22:25

in in service roles. But still needs to know so that the if you like the examination

22:32

or pressure to make you learn, it's slightly less urgent.

22:38

But I'm just wondering, for example, stuff like.

22:43

Finals for undergraduates, you know what? What's the inclusion in of the digital

22:50

kind of agenda in that and how how might this framework relate to that?

22:57

Sonia, can you, can you? I know you're GP, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm thinking things like

23:03

licensing exams and stuff like that. Yeah. No, I've involved in medical education for quite a number of years.

23:09

I mean, I have to say First off, I mean I'm really excited by this because it's a very clear outline of

23:15

the domains that you need to consider with digital health technologies. But I think equally,

23:21

I'm also quite worried about how the health service is sort of moving.

23:27

At breakneck speed in how we're adopting digital technologies and indeed how society is as well,

23:34

we all know that there's Google, there's wearables, there's apps. You know, digital health is part of our everyday lives.

23:39

But yet when you look at the training needs and how it's being integrated into undergraduate curricula and

23:46

that's across the health professions, postgraduate curricula, you do start to think that actually

23:53

digital health at best is, is sometimes mentioned it, it isn't. It isn't a strong theme and I think.

23:59

One of the really sort of beautiful ways of highlighting this is the medical licensing exam, which comes in just for medical

24:05

students in 2024, doesn't really mention digital health even though it does have an

24:11

area around around capabilities. I did a bit of a look yesterday and I was putting in words like technology,

24:16

digital remote consulting, anything that could encapsulate what we're talking about today and it

24:22

just isn't reflected and that that that's new that that that isn't, that hasn't even been launched yet,

24:27

that's coming out in 2024. So that disconnect between what society is moving ahead with what

24:35

the NHS and HEE's moving ahead with, but yet how educational bodies and

24:40

that's undergraduate and postgraduate are sort of somehow lagging behind. I think will be will be a problem

24:46

not only for dissemination of this framework but actually the bigger thing is, is actually how we supporting our

24:52

patients rather like you Hatim. I remember a patient coming in with their genome profile and I

24:57

had a student in with me, you know, I was totally out of my depth. How to counsel the patient about their

25:02

risk with for various conditions. So not only is there a training need for our pipeline, our students,

25:08

there's a huge training need for our trainers. You know who who is going to be

25:13

teaching our students all of these six domains around digital health. So I don't know, I don't want to use the word emergency,

25:20

but I do think there is a digital health emergency that we need to address.

25:25

Thank you. So that's really kind of powerful almost call to action, isn't it that that the that we need

25:32

to catch up across the system and maybe this reflects a societal,

25:37

a wider societal issue where we've got the kind of inexorable and ever quickening March of technology and

25:44

across society we struggle to catch up and are playing catch up with it, but from a kind of legislative point of view.

25:53

And if you like, this is an aspect in a, in a in a part of medical education

25:58

or healthcare education and practice. So I think that's a really

26:04

powerful observation. And we have got this strange situation, have we not?

26:09

And I've been interested to hear people's comments on this that you know that everything is moving really quite

26:16

rapidly now normally in in a lot of healthcare knowledge and understanding.

26:22

It's sort of held behind a kind of a, a bit of a Mystic shroud of learning,

26:27

isn't it? So we we've had this aspect of the the the doubling time of medical

26:33

knowledge and it used to be 50 years and then 25 years and then ten years.

26:39

And I think it's currently at about 70 days and shrinking, but for technology,

26:44

which is often unreleased in a commercial setting 1st and then adapted for healthcare rather

26:50

than the other way around. Actually if you like our public are way ahead of us in terms of their use

26:57

and and often their sophistication certainly for some parts of the population. So that I think that's another challenge.

27:04

How, how do you, do you think the framework will help our healthcare workforce if

27:11

you like math their progress in their learning journey that helps equip them to meet that challenge.

27:17

Perhaps I'll ask Alan, because you you described the the construction of the framework.

27:24

Yes, thanks. Actually I think I think it has the potential to do that definitely we we've certainly been and we've

27:30

we've we've we've put parts of the framework and map that against our new clinical data science program for example. So we're trying to try and

27:37

embed these things in, in some of those postgraduate work that we're doing. We've also got a lot of stuff going on in

27:42

nursing at the University of Manchester. So particular modules and courses, you know a lot of them tend to

27:48

be postgraduate focused though because you know there's a lot of crowded curriculum in a lot of these medical professions.

27:54

Between medicine and and nursing they're always putting more and more things in and obviously digital is very important.

27:59

But often we're seeing you know it's maybe not getting the attention that it deserves but some people

28:05

are also trying to embed that into normal normal kind of practice and put it into other units and other

28:10

things which I think is a good idea. It's another way to to embed some of the digital stuff in there as well. So we're seeing sort of more and

28:17

more adoption of these things and if it can be incorporated into other modules and interdisciplinary learning as well when we're working

28:22

with other professional groups. Because that's what happens in reality, isn't it? You're going to use this technology

28:27

a lot to communicate with other groups and other departments. And really we need to start embedding this early on

28:33

in the undergraduate and postgraduate curriculum. So I think definitely having that framework and the ability for people

28:38

to sort of look at that and see what those requirements might be certainly gives educators something they can start to work with and

28:44

start to make sure that they're including some of those main elements. So, so early adoption,

28:51

decimination and uptake kind of key key themes I think coming out out

28:57

of of of your answer and how how might you see that for example Hatim

29:02

or Sonia in GP training given that that's both your clinical backgrounds. Is that something you've you've seen

29:10

I don't wanna make presumptions but I suspect had him slightly closer to

29:15

training than Sonia but maybe not very, not very much so but from from your point of view, Hatim,

29:22

Have you seen that or Sonia, have you seen that in practice? So my reflection during my training is I think that we're on a journey

29:28

here that similarly we were on with leadership with with quality improvement which are areas that have fell in quite naturally into the the,

29:35

the GP portfolio or the GP kind of workplace based assessments. And now when I was training that

29:41

whilst there wasn't a specific section around digital, I made sure that I did a lot of

29:47

reflection on the way that I used digital tools in the way I interacted with my patients and I did,

29:52

I spent a lot of time thinking about well actually did that make things better. Did that help the the the case

29:57

or did that actually make things worse was that the right modality to to choose to communicate with that patient and was I excluding

30:03

them from from care by by by using that modality and I spent a lot of time reflecting on these things more naturally purely because it was

30:10

important to me but I think we do need to create the conditions within the portfolio to support people to

30:15

to be able to do that reflection and and to be able to make to understand that better because ultimately this

30:22

is all about safe ethical patient care and and and to be able to. deliver safe ethical patient care need to be able to be competent in

30:28

working with the tools that you're working with and understand their strengths and their limitations.

30:37

I've just sort of I suppose just adding from an undergraduate perspective, um, you know I I think the evidence around,

30:44

I wrote a paper around this the evidence around how you teach digital health. How you actually embed this in

30:50

curriculum is quite sparse. So I think that there's there's a real gap there is how do we

30:56

actually get this information and and skills and values around digital inclusion out to our students?

31:01

Clearly PowerPoint's not going to do it. You know teaching our students all of this in lectures isn't going to do it.

31:08

I mean one thought that I have is is 1 and this is bringing in my experience

31:13

around community based learning and and being a GP is that students and also just building on what you said

31:19

Hatim around quality improvement. One thing that I have done previous to my role at the University of Leeds,

31:25

I was at Imperial College London for 10 years and one thing that we did there is that the students year three

31:30

medical students did what we call Community Action projects and we sort of focused these around hot topics

31:36

such as COVID vaccine hesitancy. And just one thought is that students could do quality improvement projects

31:42

with communities in that they learn the knowledge base and the skill based around digital health,

31:47

but they do that through working with communities in upskilling communities in digital literacy.

31:54

So you sort of have a double win there that not only the students learning but actually they're learning through service.

32:00

Because I do think that we need to think about training needs not just of our healthcare professionals but also the

32:05

gaps in our in our, in, in patients. We need to empower them so that when they are. Coming with information, they've been able to do a little

32:12

appraisal of the information themselves and that they're not spending huge amounts of money and time on

32:18

digital health technologies that may not be best for their health. Thank you,

32:23

Sonia that that that's a really helpful insight actually. So we do have a question and so thank

32:28

you for the questions and comments which are coming through on the chat. We have a question from Jane Daly on that.

32:36

That was dinner at 12:29 for members of the panel that wants to look at the

32:41

question before I fire it out to you. So this digital first will only be

32:46

integrated or embedded if workforce contracts and the reward and recognition system is revolutionized.

32:54

How does this align with critical and strategic workforce planning? I've got horrible feeling as I read that it might come back my way,

33:00

but does anyone want to kind of start off with that? As a response, yeah,

33:06

I can kick us off in that shape. It would be great to have your views on that as well. But I guess the way the way I see this is,

33:12

it's important. This is a particular group that we haven't necessarily focused on just now. We're talking about undergraduate

33:18

and postgraduate training, but actually there's a whole group around continuing professional development who are out there working

33:25

in the NHS that will need to equally have these skills looked at and be able to kind of be supported to be able

33:30

to keep their skills up to date or develop their skills where gaps lie. And I think the key here is. Is.

33:36

Is culture of an organization top down leadership in terms of saying this is important to to be able to

33:41

develop the skills in this area, making sure these things are built into annual appraisals so that

33:46

you're able to at some point look at your digital literacy users. Something like a digital self-assessment

33:52

tool that we're developing a health education in England and piloting in, in, in, in, in, in the north of the country.

33:58

To be able to say where am I right now and where do I need to go and have a really open and frank conversation with your line manager in terms of

34:05

how you then develop those skills. And why it's important that you develop those skills. And so if you have all of that kind of naturally happening,

34:11

within an organization, you're going to be more digitally mature as an organization. And so it's important that we work with

34:18

providers to be able to enable that. That thanks. Thanks.

34:24

Hatim, yeah I know I think from a a workforce planning is really quite a complex thing isn't it?

34:29

Because a lot of planning is there's kind of short, medium and long term planning

34:35

and some of that planning, long term planning assumes or

34:40

if you like has foresight that there will be a great deal of

34:47

digital technological change. And yet it can't be exact in articulating exactly what it

34:54

would look like or how it affects. If you like the you know what's often known,

34:59

your workforce planning cycles, circles is productivity or your workforce requirements or

35:04

your learning requirement. Even so, it becomes really quite an inexact

35:09

science at that stage and as we know. Kind of current progress is not

35:14

always a good kind of predictor of future growth in in in the area. So it's it's it should be quite

35:21

easy I think it's the answer it's actually very very difficult to to do

35:27

accurately beyond very broad assumptions. I think that's one of the issues. So it's a really good question

35:34

that kind of highlighting some of some of the difficulties in trying to do that I think reward

35:40

is a really useful kind of. Local example of how you can reward

35:46

your workforce for training and pursuing that that knowledge journey

35:52

and competency and capability journey amongst for digital and we

35:58

know for example there are areas of practice and so protect the example

36:06

of diagnosis of stroke where AI technologies for imaging to diagnose.

36:13

Kind of strokes which are amenable to intervention. I think that's my understanding of the technology that's being used.

36:19

You know that's grown from about 10% uptake a couple of years ago and it's about 70% of units and they're using it,

36:26

so they're they're there's that rapid growth, it would be quite hard to predict

36:32

although it's incredibly welcome and some of the other technological

36:38

learning advancements which require greater interplay with. If you like skill,

36:44

individual skill might take a bit longer and of course need

36:50

guarantees and regulation because you know you don't want to be doing robotic surgery on people if you're

36:57

not properly qualified to to to undertake that procedure for example. Very simplistic view.

37:02

So I think Alan you have your hands up, so please do come.

37:08

So I think Hatim was first. No that's fine. I'm I took it off. I took it off, go for it. I was just gonna,

37:13

yeah I was just gonna say. Another thing that I think is quite important with this as well is we talk a lot about the the digital

37:18

literacy but as the technologies get more advanced they're often closely associated with data. So there's this concept of data

37:24

literacy as well where you know if you're if you're not putting the right data into it or or doing that

37:29

in the right way obviously what you get out of it can be affected. So I think that's another key thing is also having

37:35

access to this data for people to learn from as well. And to learn how to use data. And therefore, you know,

37:40

so it's not just the tools that we need to sort of teach people, it's the data that goes into the tools and how that's collected and

37:46

maintained as well as it were. And also we often have trouble with that in academia, getting access to real data sets and

37:52

things like that to train people on. So we're looking at things like synthetic data and, you know, using things like electronic health

37:58

record systems and using sort of fake data and things like that. But again, the sooner we can get people using

38:03

some of these tools and the data that's associated with it as well and getting them comfortable with. Using data that's going to help us

38:10

well in this in this area, I think. Right. So that's a really good question

38:15

from Catherine Woolley at 12:34 for the timestamp aware amongst

38:20

the panel which says do we need to upskill the trainers first,

38:26

can't teach effectively something you don't understand yourself, which is fantastic question

38:33

Catherine and incredibly true. So, uh, who would like to have a

38:38

go at answering that? Hatim I saw the ghost of a nod there.

38:45

So that that made that means it's you. No? I'd love to hear Sonia's opinion on this as as a senior educator,

38:51

and what your thoughts are in terms of one, I think we might. I'm hoping we're all gonna say yes.

38:56

And two, how do we then do it? Well, so I suppose just turning this on its head. So this is pre COVID I think 2017,

39:04

2018 I or maybe no, it was around 2019. It was around the time of the Topol review.

39:09

I set up a module for medical students called digital health futures. And looking at it, it wasn't particularly forward thinking,

39:15

but you know it was, it was on the basis of the Topol review which was where we really started to embed

39:22

some of this learning for medical students. And what became apparent exactly as you say Catherine is that none

39:28

of us really knew as much as the. Students. And so that really is where the light bulb hit that actually I do wonder

39:34

whether it is the new generation, it is our students that will be upskilling us.

39:39

Obviously we don't want to do complete reverse teaching, but I do think there is something about Co creating any curricular

39:46

changes with our students. They are so completely savvy, not only with just digital tech in

39:51

their life on their smartphones, but also around. There are a lot of students that are really,

39:57

really excited about digital health and know a lot about it. And so when we ran this module,

40:03

the students were absolutely teaching us. And so when we developed the module and and we presented uh,

40:09

some of our our work at conferences, we were very much working alongside students. So I think the how has to be with the

40:16

new generation who have been brought up with digital education and digital health.

40:22

Great. And of course there's nothing to stop our educators from using the same capability and competency

40:28

framework themselves, plot their own journey and make sure they're teaching to the

40:34

right level that as you say, you've got to understand a subject properly to be able to teach it well.

40:41

I think that's one that observations. So we're, we're just coming to the end.

40:46

We've got the last couple of minutes. So there's one very quick question, John, hoping there will be a really quick answer.

40:52

To do that, I think talks about the digital sheet digital literacy literacy as

40:59

assessment from Kerry O'Reilly. This is a digital literary assessment. Is this available for wider use?

41:08

So yeah, to my understanding the digital literacy self-assessment tool is is currently being piloted and it's

41:14

not open for for wider use as of yet but but then but hopefully it will be soon and I'll share a

41:20

link in the chat to the website so that people can stay updated in terms of its progress. That, that, that's brilliant, fantastic.

41:28

There are lots of really interesting and insightful comments on the chat.

41:36

And I can reassure you as we approach the last minute of the webinar,

41:43

because I think we log off at 12:45. That.

41:50

A recording of the webinar will be will be made available and it will

41:57

be on the DART-Ed web pages. So, and we'll add a link in the chat I'm sure,

42:05

I I hope will come soon. And there's a Twitter channel

42:10

@NHSDigAcademy. So I think this conversation and

42:16

the developments can be followed on on that on Twitter.

42:21

And I think I'm, I hope, I hope the link can get posted into that as well.

42:26

So I I would really, really like to thank our panel today.

42:32

I'd like to thank Sonia for for your inputs and development of this,

42:38

like to thank Alan similarly and thank you so much. And I'd like to thank Hatim for

42:43

really kind of helping coordinate and drive a lot of this in HEE. So thank you so much.

42:49

I'd also like to thank Beth. And Emily, who you won't see on this webinar,

42:54

but basically without their. Abilities to organise and corral us,

43:01

four of us into a room, albeit virtually at this time, none of this would happen.

43:06

Thank you so much for listening and tuning in and I hope we'll have further conversations

43:12

and look forward to you all all joining us in the future. Thank you.

43:17

Good afternoon.

Media last reviewed: 3 May 2023

Next review due: 3 May 2024